Candid made his own choices. But like everything else that happened it was for a reason that was connected to everything. That's not me blaming anyone for his actions. And it's too close together for me to just consider it a thing between me and him. Too many feelings, too much personal experience.
We're not going to agree it is, so the only one we know it will be is you. Which is all I want at the moment.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
You'd have blame if you did see it and didn't do anything. And even if you had, you didn't him the idea that a person who has had his life stolen away by a copy would just watch him do the same thing to someone else and then forgive him because love. He doesn't even have not knowing as an excuse and even if it was because he loves you so much, that isn't your responsibility. It's only connected to you because we're all connected to each other.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
If I had seen it I would have stopped it, absolutely. I don't know what he was thinking that any of us would ever forgive him. I only forgave him as it is because I'd be a hypocrite of I didn't give people second chances.
But all the same, I knew he resented MK. We only talked about it the once, where he actually had something legitimate to be resentful about. It never came up again, but I should have asked. This is where me being dumb about feelings comes into play, I suppose. All I know is that... I liked it. I liked being the center of someone's attention for once. And it haunts me that because of that, I might not have delved into things as I should have, and we all almost lost MK because of it.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
That still doesn't make it your fault. Him resenting MK could have shown in many ways. There's no reason that you would have to think that he'd choose that one. No reason you should have to assume the worst situation of people you care about when they seem normal.
I've only forgiven him because he didn't succeed and the bullying he was getting wasn't helping him. Told him to remind the others that tearing him down won't make things right with anyone. That I'll be waiting for him to prove he won't repeat home again, but I won't trust more than that he sees the problem and wants to change it.
You know what it like to not feel seen or to share more than you're getting. It's nice to have. That's not your fault and I doubt anyone would say you should feel bad for enjoying attention and not doing anything with what you couldn't see coming..
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
One dramatic thing did help me to forgive him, though. During the blackout, MK must have been effected by the veil, knowing him, because I saw him running away from a group of humans that he should easily have been able to take in a fight. And Candid jumped in to save MK. Even took a bullet for him. That helped convince me that Candid was on the right path. And we've done a fair bit of talking about MK since and I haven't seen anything that concerns me. I'm keeping my ears open, that said.
But obviously you have to deal with him in the ways that are right for you, I'm not telling you this to try and change your mind. I'm just explaining my thinking.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
That is a good sign overall and tracks with my last talk with him. Though I'm sorry he got shot. It's not my issue with him though. I'm genuinely glad he's doing better anyway.
I appreciate the explanation. And it makes sense. If it wasn't so personal to basically everything about who and what I am along with everything else maybe I'd be further into forgiving him or able to ask for your help. But I don't think anyone here even can so this is the best way.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
He was fine. We did learne that he can't pop anymore unless he's the subject of enough to kill someone.
Forgive him or not in your own time, you have your reasons. I've thought before that maybe I was too quick in doing so. Max was right, I do have a swiss-cheese heart sometimes.
Asking for my help would be a terrible idea so probably avoid that whenever possible.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
Did you tell him what happened when he died? What a mess.
I hadn't heard it either. He said that about having a lot of partners. It's not like I'm coupled up with half the population. Nine people isn't so many.
I guess not. But if you ever ask me for help and I hesitate, that's why.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
He did. It's another messy situation. But it sounds like he's got a better grasp on the scary part than he had before.
Pretty much all of you have more than I'm ever likely to have, so I'm not a good judge of "a lot". Two is a lot to me and I technically have that many.
I'll be more surprised if you ever don't hesitate.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
Candid was telling MK about being able to be hurt without popping, and also that I kissed him, when Azure took over. I keep hoping it was only the first thing and not the second that tripped the wire. Either way, I'm glad he told you. I told him that he should. Keeping that a secret wouldn't be good for MK.
I really only ever expected to have Wukong, and when that went to shit I expected nothing. But I'm much happier now than I was then, so I guess that's something.
I mean, if you told me that you needed someone's ass kicked I wouldn't hesitate. It's just all the rest of it that I'm not very good at.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
He did. I can relate to either being the reason, but also how scary it is to have somone else use you to make that choice. Azure aside, MK needs support in coming to terms with Candid. Having Azure just means things are more complicated. And someone needs to make sure Candid is actually okay.
It's more than something.
What makes that funny is that's something I'll only ever need when I'm out of options. So you'll know it's bad.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
I'm not sure what the reference to someone using someone else to make a choice is about.
I know that he needs support. That they both do. But we've just spent however long going over why I'm the exact wrong choice for that, haven't we? I'm not sure what I can do except tell them to talk to people who are much better at support than I am.
Yeah, I know you'd be out of options to ask that, but it's all I feel I can safely offer, so. I wanted to offer anyway.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
Azure taking control of MK to make him snap Candid's neck. I know that MK didn't like what Candid said, but I have a hard time imagining he'd have chosen to test that in that manner. That's all.
Unless Candid has someone he trusts as much as you, you might be the only person who can find out if he's actually okay and make sure he's not alone. Even if it's just finding out who else he has and helping with reasons they should talk to him. I can support MK better than I can Candid because of similar experiences.
I'll remember.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
I didn't think it was. MK was really shaken up after I told him what happened.
I can try to get him to talk to his therapist, I guess. I don't know how well he'll listen to me. He went all sideways on me when I said that I was engaged. And then he started leaking Contagion out of his nose. The whole thing was unnerving.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
I don't know how to explain it. He went blank. Started asking nearly emotionless questions about how he could help. And then he sniffed like he had suddenly developed a cold, but it was white goop. I saw it in Max's dream, it's Contagion. Esme's, to be exact. Apparently MK got it and infected Candid that time when he brought him back. I already talked to Max about it.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
They seem to be. Apparently Esme's strain only makes people develop strong feelings for him, nothing else. I'm not a big fan of leaving it in there since it's giving them artificial feelings without their consent, but Max pretty much talked me out of trying to interfere. Mostly because talking to them about it could spread the infection to me.
I think Candid's leaking was a result of his emotional conflict when I told him that I'm marrying Lucifer. So you probably wouldn't notice it unless something on that level happened.
That's all I really got. And that it can be removed if they make a deal with Max to remove it of their own free will but he seemed to think that was the only way.
When Candid told me he was having feelings for Esme I thought it was sudden, but this explains it. I kind of hate this for them both. Esme isn't a bad person for them to love at all, but I'd rather it not be an infection that does it.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
It might be worth asking if it's possible to safety get a feel on how MK felt about Esme before. I knew he knows Esme and they were friends. It's been that way for quite awhile, so if it makes strong feelings then maybe we can find out when it happened at least.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
I got the impression that it happened during the dream sharing. Evidently, Esme sharing pieces of a particular part of his life causes the infection, but then it can spread by talking about the infection itself? Something like that. Your world remains very confusing to me, but I think I got it. You should ask Max if you have more questions.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
I'll do that. Toby had something where he couldn't talk about things that happened in the city he'd come from or even try to remember. And Max seems to be connected, my work building too. But this is the most I've been told about that.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
He's been the easiest to understand here. Especially because I'm not looking for something to break down the wall every time he reaches out. Or a song starts.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
We're not going to agree it is, so the only one we know it will be is you. Which is all I want at the moment.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
All right, if you say so.
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Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
But all the same, I knew he resented MK. We only talked about it the once, where he actually had something legitimate to be resentful about. It never came up again, but I should have asked. This is where me being dumb about feelings comes into play, I suppose. All I know is that... I liked it. I liked being the center of someone's attention for once. And it haunts me that because of that, I might not have delved into things as I should have, and we all almost lost MK because of it.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
I've only forgiven him because he didn't succeed and the bullying he was getting wasn't helping him. Told him to remind the others that tearing him down won't make things right with anyone. That I'll be waiting for him to prove he won't repeat home again, but I won't trust more than that he sees the problem and wants to change it.
You know what it like to not feel seen or to share more than you're getting. It's nice to have. That's not your fault and I doubt anyone would say you should feel bad for enjoying attention and not doing anything with what you couldn't see coming..
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
One dramatic thing did help me to forgive him, though. During the blackout, MK must have been effected by the veil, knowing him, because I saw him running away from a group of humans that he should easily have been able to take in a fight. And Candid jumped in to save MK. Even took a bullet for him. That helped convince me that Candid was on the right path. And we've done a fair bit of talking about MK since and I haven't seen anything that concerns me. I'm keeping my ears open, that said.
But obviously you have to deal with him in the ways that are right for you, I'm not telling you this to try and change your mind. I'm just explaining my thinking.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
That is a good sign overall and tracks with my last talk with him. Though I'm sorry he got shot. It's not my issue with him though. I'm genuinely glad he's doing better anyway.
I appreciate the explanation. And it makes sense. If it wasn't so personal to basically everything about who and what I am along with everything else maybe I'd be further into forgiving him or able to ask for your help. But I don't think anyone here even can so this is the best way.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
Forgive him or not in your own time, you have your reasons. I've thought before that maybe I was too quick in doing so. Max was right, I do have a swiss-cheese heart sometimes.
Asking for my help would be a terrible idea so probably avoid that whenever possible.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
That's a term I've never heard. But like I said, he's been forgiven. We're on the hard part.
We're never going to agree on that.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
I hadn't heard it either. He said that about having a lot of partners. It's not like I'm coupled up with half the population. Nine people isn't so many.
I guess not. But if you ever ask me for help and I hesitate, that's why.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
Pretty much all of you have more than I'm ever likely to have, so I'm not a good judge of "a lot". Two is a lot to me and I technically have that many.
I'll be more surprised if you ever don't hesitate.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
I really only ever expected to have Wukong, and when that went to shit I expected nothing. But I'm much happier now than I was then, so I guess that's something.
I mean, if you told me that you needed someone's ass kicked I wouldn't hesitate. It's just all the rest of it that I'm not very good at.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
It's more than something.
What makes that funny is that's something I'll only ever need when I'm out of options. So you'll know it's bad.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
I know that he needs support. That they both do. But we've just spent however long going over why I'm the exact wrong choice for that, haven't we? I'm not sure what I can do except tell them to talk to people who are much better at support than I am.
Yeah, I know you'd be out of options to ask that, but it's all I feel I can safely offer, so. I wanted to offer anyway.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
Unless Candid has someone he trusts as much as you, you might be the only person who can find out if he's actually okay and make sure he's not alone. Even if it's just finding out who else he has and helping with reasons they should talk to him. I can support MK better than I can Candid because of similar experiences.
I'll remember.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
I can try to get him to talk to his therapist, I guess. I don't know how well he'll listen to me. He went all sideways on me when I said that I was engaged. And then he started leaking Contagion out of his nose. The whole thing was unnerving.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
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Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
I think Candid's leaking was a result of his emotional conflict when I told him that I'm marrying Lucifer. So you probably wouldn't notice it unless something on that level happened.
That's all I really got. And that it can be removed if they make a deal with Max to remove it of their own free will but he seemed to think that was the only way.
When Candid told me he was having feelings for Esme I thought it was sudden, but this explains it. I kind of hate this for them both. Esme isn't a bad person for them to love at all, but I'd rather it not be an infection that does it.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Text (After Movie Night #5...Sometime post-deal.)
It might be worth asking if it's possible to safety get a feel on how MK felt about Esme before. I knew he knows Esme and they were friends. It's been that way for quite awhile, so if it makes strong feelings then maybe we can find out when it happened at least.
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